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[Unidentified]: sent. Thank you. Hi everyone. Hello, noon.
[Ruseau]: We have to end on time, whether I just cut somebody off in the middle of a sentence and click the exit button because the cable folks have told us that this channel they're using to display this meeting has to switch over to. I'm assuming a city council meeting I can't remember what it was. But I think we can manage. people keep joining, but I guess I'll get us going. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here. Can you hear me all okay? Yes, you all hear me okay. Excellent. So I'm gonna call to order once I find something to write on. So anyway, so this is the Medford School Committee Subcommittee on Rules and Policy for November 16th. 4 p.m., and I'll just call the roll. Member Graham?
[Unidentified]: Here. And Member McLaughlin? Here.
[Ruseau]: And Member Berceau? Here. Three present. Thank you all for coming. It's an exciting topic. I'm not going to share, well, I'll just go through the things that were, why we're meeting. I guess I should read the rest of the posting. It's been a while, sorry. Please be advised that on Wednesday, November 16th from 4 to 5.30, there will be a rules and policy subcommittee meeting held for remote participation via Zoom. The meeting can be viewed through Medford Community Media on Comcast channel 15 and Verizon channel 45 at 4 p.m. Since the meeting will be held remotely, participants can log in or call by using the following link or call in number. The Zoom link is HTTPS And if you wish to call in, you call 1301-715-8592. The meeting ID is 95409931345. Additionally, if you wish to submit any comments or have questions during the meeting that you don't want to speak about, you can email them to me. Hopefully, I guess I should open my email in case that happens. My email address is PRUSDAU at medford.k12.ma.us. Please include your first and last name, your Medford Street address, or if you're an employee, indicate that, your question and or comment. So our agenda for tonight is From a May 16th meeting, school committee approved that the rules and policy subcommittee will review the wellness policy, which is policy ID ADF for K-8 students, be sent to the rules and policy subcommittee for revision, and that it be revised as necessary to ensure unrestricted free play recess is available to all K-8 children daily as part of their social and emotional wellbeing. The curtailing of unrestricted free play Recess shall be tracked. This information shall be returned to the school committee twice each year and be disambiguated by grade, school grade, gender, race, disability, and socioeconomic status. The subcommittee shall invite at least one teacher and administrator from grades K to five and also from six to eight, as well as the director of student services or her designee to ensure their voices are considered. The current policy and recommended revised policy will be returned to the the full school committee no later than the first meeting in November, which has gone by. So I spoke to, I can't remember, since this is rescheduled, forgive me for not remembering what I was supposed to do. In today's meeting, the goal was to hear from folks that have opinions on recess, whether that is the importance of recess, free what they mean by recess, because not everybody agrees on the definition of recess, and also on the impacts of withholding recess as a form of discipline. And I promised I would not do all the talking. So unless there's any other members that want to say anything before we open the floor.
[Unidentified]: All right, does anybody? I want to speak on this important topic that has got sidelined by the pandemic. Somebody has to want to speak.
[Edouard-Vincent]: If I may, I was going to say, I think as a district, we truly believe and value the importance of recess and giving students the opportunity to have fresh air, to go outside, to play, to socialize, to get some gross motor movement in, and do activities. you know, play games, they play tag. So I think definitely everyone is in support of recess and the true values that students gain from having that as part of the day. So it's something that we know people look forward to and a lot of great memories can be made during that time of the day. So we definitely support recess and just the physical and social, emotional health benefits that come from that.
[Ruseau]: Thank you, Dr. Edward Benson, my wonderful superintendent. I just want to throw a couple of little pieces of information out there. I don't know if everybody here already knows this stuff. In Massachusetts, recess is not considered time on learning. So that puts us at a disadvantage to some other states where they have started to finally do this and recognize that recess is not just a time to hang out and do nothing, that it's really for our younger kids, an actual educational part of their education. And we have recess at the elementary and middle schools, and I believe kindergarten has two recesses, is that correct? Yes, great, thank you. And maybe Assistant Superintendent Galussi could just, since I have to admit some ignorance here, tell us what recess looks like at the elementary school. Like, when does it happen? How long is it?
[Galusi]: Sure. Well, you had mentioned kindergarten does have two. They're usually around mealtimes. So before or after morning snack and before or after afternoon lunch. The structure for grades one through five is either before or after lunch. And it's, I mean, about 20 to 30 minutes every day. And so it's structured a little differently depending on space and depending on how the schedules are at each building. So you, the Roberts definitely has a bigger struggle than the other three buildings because the other three buildings have two play areas and the Roberts is confined to one. So Mr. Johnson has more of a heavy lift in terms of scheduling, I believe. He can speak to that if that's something you want more detail about. But typically, because there's two play areas, there's usually two grade levels out at the same time in the three other buildings in the separate locations for play. And teachers are spread around for supervision, as well as paraprofessionals, if they are at that grade level. If there's more detailed questions, I would be more than happy to answer. But that's kind of just the overall structure of it. If Andy or Kirk want to add anything in, please feel free.
[Kirk Johnson]: Thanks as well for the Roberts is, as we mentioned, it's pretty tight. We just have one space. So for us, it's one grade level per recess. And as she mentioned, it's usually around recess lunchtimes for the upper grades and kindergarten and the preschool students have a little more flexibility because they're closer to the site, the recess site. But we are, it's pretty tight, the Roberts School due to one playground area.
[Ruseau]: Thank you. That might be something someday to address. If we could just hear from middle school principals, since, again, I will admit ignorance on how that all works there.
[Downs]: Um, so recess is based on when they really basically get done eating and clean up weather dependent of course. You know, if it's really cold out, we don't go out for a half an hour, but we'll go out for 15 minutes or so. Again, it depends on how fast they eat and clean up is the length of the recess each day. If it's raining out or like significantly raining out, we tend to go into the gymnasium for recess to, we still let them have some time to move around. But that's basically how it works at the Andrews.
[Tucci]: It's very, very similar. You know, students during the course of their lunch block are essentially, you can think of the lunch block as a 40 minute window of time. About 20 minutes of that time is spent in the cafeteria eating. The other 20 minutes is outside engaging in recess. And certainly I'm a huge believer in recess for a number of different reasons. You know, it benefits students, you know, by increasing their level of physical activity, their memory, attention, concentration, helping them stay on task in the classroom. reducing disruptive types of behavior and just giving them opportunity to improve their social emotional development on a number of different levels. And I think the research really suggests that we continue to use recess. I see it as a really big thing that we want to build on each of our students' days. And on days where we can't offer recess because the weather isn't conducive to it, you can see the impact on students too as well when they don't have that during the course of the day. That's kind of what it looks like at the middle school level, the benefits of what I believe and why I think recess should be in play. How it looks is it's an opportunity for students to be able to socialize, perhaps at the McGlynn by walking the track at Hormel Stadium. Maybe they're playing football. Maybe they're playing soccer, shooting hoops, basketball, foursquare. You know, things of that sort. It's an opportunity for people to just socialize with their peers. And our guidance Councilors will push out and sometimes use this opportunity to be able to have some lunch buddy groups outside in the fresh air. And certainly it's an opportunity for principals, guidance Councilors, teachers, paraprofessionals to develop relationships with students too as well in this type of setting. So that's what I have to say about recess and happy to answer any questions people might have.
[Unidentified]: Excellent, thank you.
[Ruseau]: I greatly appreciate you reminding me as a parent that I don't know what happens to us.
[Unidentified]: Janine, I believe you had your hand up.
[Chenine Peloquin]: Three years and I'm double unmuting myself. So my name is Shanine Pelliquin. I'm a recreation therapist and developmental specialist. Most recently, I've been working as the co-chair of the McGlynn Playground Committee. I've also done some, I've done several, well, 12 hours of observations of recess there, and also been talking to many teachers and parents across the district about recess over the past couple of years. I have a third grader at the Roberts, and I'll have an incoming kindergartner next year. I would say that, I know that in principle, the district believes in recess, but in my observations, there are many staff who do see the value in child-directed play, but also many others who are very upset by the normal ways that children play, and thus overly restrict the activities of the children. The concerns of the teachers and other staff do not bear out in the injury data. And in addition, indoor recess quality varies greatly across buildings and by teacher. Some teachers are really great at having actual playful activities inside, and others consistently put on a screen, which is not child-directed play, has nothing to do with development of agency or social skills. And I think that I would recommend that the district adopt a policy of no screen times during recess. Like there, yes, sometimes your class earns a movie, And so you do that, but it should not be allowed during indoor recess. And we need a better policy. And structured training, I'm not sure what it is, ideas presented to staff for indoor recess. And I just want to maybe see if we can get a definition of child-directed play. The field of play work, which is a distinct professional approach to working with children, In playful settings is that child directed play, which sometimes gets called free play or unstructured play is freely chosen personally directed and intrinsically motivated. This is the only time of the day, sometimes at all, for some kids who are in care all day or who are in other adult-directed activities all day. It's the only time that belongs to them, and this is the development of agency for human beings. So we really need to value it and make sure that activities at recess are encouraging that personally directed, intrinsically motivated, and personally directed things that children want to do. Thank you.
[Unidentified]: Thank you very much.
[Ruseau]: I appreciate the definition because I certainly said free play and had a rather vague conception of what that meant.
[Chenine Peloquin]: Yeah, so free play is tricky because it connotes like monetary value or adults get really worried about chaos, right? And if, I mean, all of us are people who have worked with children and unstructured play is a misnomer there because I'm sure, I mean, if we think about even The Calvin Ball is a really great illustration of how children structure their own play. But we've all been playing with a kid and bumped up against a rule that they make. So unstructured play is actually like a value statement on who's doing the structuring. The children are doing the structuring in their own child-directed play.
[Ruseau]: Thank you. That's very helpful. And we tried to visit this topic in 2019, and then there was a little pandemic in the way. And in preparations in 2019 for this work, I was watching these videos, I think it's Australia, where there was this wonderful series, which I won't make you all sit through here, where the principal sort of dropped all the rules, frankly. I mean, it was really, I'll... have it included in the minutes, the link to it, but it was really remarkable to see that the fears of teachers, the fears of parents, that they just didn't, that they weren't accurate fear, like they were real, the fears are real, but the result wasn't anything like what anybody thought. And, you know, did any kid ever break an arm? Yes. But I can tell you right now that a friend of mine, their kid broke their arm twice at the mistook. And, you know, that did not look like the Australian elementary school. So, you know, injuries will happen. But as Miss Bellaquin said, the data does not suggest that there's any increase in injuries by just letting the kids do it themselves.
[Unidentified]: And I don't know if that's the right word. So anyways, who else would like to speak on this? I'll just throw in something real quick.
[Ruseau]: Oh, I'm sorry, Member McLaughlin, let me just say this real quick. I did review our wellness policy, which is what we're supposed to do during this subcommittee. And I reviewed the wellness policy three or four surrounding communities. And our wellness policy does not use the word recess in any way. It's just not there. And all of the other districts I looked at, and I didn't go through 351 districts, but all of them, really, there was a theme. And that was, recess will not be taken away as discipline. And that's the main thrust of all of those policies that have clearly been updated in response to the research and evidence around this stuff. But when I, and the next meeting we'll talk about actual policy from Medford, but Member McLaughlin, sorry to delay.
[McLaughlin]: Hi, yeah, so I was curious if Shanine was asking us for a deliverable to recommend as part of what we're bringing forward from the subcommittee to the school committee that is included with the request. I'm not sure what specifically you are asking for, Shanine, and I just wanted to make sure that we had some quick clarification on that, just like one, two, this is what I'm asking.
[Chenine Peloquin]: A definition of child-directed play. that I will email to Paul, but again, is freely chosen, personally directed, and intrinsically motivated. So children get to choose their own play. Here come mine. They get to choose what they do in their time and be in charge of it.
[Unidentified]: Thank you.
[Chenine Peloquin]: There they are, muting.
[Galusi]: I guess I'm just, I guess, I under, I just guess I'm a little confused that, to my knowledge, right this is that's the structure. Listen to Mr. downs and Mr. Chuchi Mr. Chuchi did a great job with all of this elaborate detail. which sounded child-directed. I know at the elementary level, it's child-directed. Teachers are not structuring and telling students what they should play. Maybe there's a limit in terms of if students want to bring certain props or toys or games from home, there may be questions or discussions within reason, but recess at the elementary level, Is the child directed?
[Chenine Peloquin]: So, yes, I guess I want to make sure that that is preserved because many schools, even in the Boston area, have gone with recess companies, such as Playworks, which is different than the field of playwork, but which comes in and teaches recess skills. And I want to make sure that that is not an answer that Medford comes to, as well as as a framework for being able to, teachers are not educated about play necessarily. They have so many other wonderful skills, but as for play and the value of it, it's developmental, et cetera, that's not typically included in that educational framework. It's not just blowing off steam. It's actually where children develop themselves that they are, They get to develop a zone of proximal development around themselves so that they can grow and play both reveals and drives child development. And I just want to make sure that that is protected in this policy.
[Sherman-Hudson]: If I, if you don't mind. Sorry, a little late. Nancy Sherman Hudson from the next tech assistant principal. So, actually I was lucky enough. My graduate work was done at Leslie, which play based playing is exactly what you are taught. And I have found that especially for early childhood and early elementary children. That they are directing their own play here at the mist attack what we've done, and it actually came off a coven because we had to keep the kids separated. So we gave them an opportunity to have different stations if they wanted to visit different stations, etc. They could use what was at that station or make something up themselves. So we have found that the children that need a little bit of prompting, this is a wonderful format. Okay, we have balls over here if you wanna go in this area. We have the playground up here if you wanna go here. It also allows for teachers to station themselves in that area so that they can watch and make sure everyone is safe. So at least I can only speak for elementary. I do believe that our teachers strongly believe in that play base to make sure that the students are using that creative end of their minds, which is, of course, very, very important. So I only can speak for our school, the Mississauga.
[Unidentified]: Thank you very much, Mrs. Sherman-Hudson. Ingrid, I don't know if you can unmute yourself.
[Ingrid]: Hi, sorry my camera doesn't work right now, I'm just gonna talk. So I just want to say that I'm excited to see the recess to be in the policy of the school, like in the handbook, because I haven't seen it there and I think it needs to be there. I wanted to see it be protected so that kids are not taking being so they don't, so the teachers don't take recess away for disciplinary reasons. I think it happens very often, but it does happen sometimes. If a kid doesn't complete their work, then sometimes they stay in the classroom or, you know, for other reason, another reason that is not safety related sometimes. they miss recess. And I, you know, I want that to be in the policy so that doesn't happen. So that's one thing I wanted to say. The other thing is that I would also like to see a consistent policy about when to declare indoor recess. Because in my experience in the Medford public schools, they're very conservative with that. And like, if it rains just a little bit, or if it's snowing just a little bit, they declare indoor recess. Like we talked about the free play and the intrinsic play and all that, but when the kids are still in the classroom all day long and stay in the classroom to doing the recess, it's really detrimental for them. And the more that they can go outside and do, you know, play and do things that are not structured, not with, you know, I know it's recess, but you're still in the classroom. So it's definitely not the same. And it's very hard to play when you're still in the same classroom. It's hard to move. It's hard to be social and free with your friends without worrying that other people are looking at you and all that. And also, it's hard to move and it's hard to get fresh air. I would like to see a consistent policy and to see if we can maybe think about ways and the kids can still go outside maybe for less time or, you know, maybe provide jackets for the kids who don't have any we've tried that in the midst of we have on. we have like lockers with extra clothes. So then the kids can go outside and if they get wet, they can change. If they get cold, it's only 20 minutes. I mean, if you go outside for 20 minutes, it really doesn't hurt you to be outside in the cold for just 30 minutes. So anyway, I just wanted to mention that.
[Ruseau]: Thank you very much. And we will talk about, I can't remember which school district, but there's a childcare weather watch, essentially, a graph, a table that decides for everyone whether or not kids are going out or not. And hopefully we can include that in our policy when we get to that part. Emily.
[Emily Kammerer]: Hi, I'm a teacher at the Andrews Middle School. I just had two comments to share. One of them that I don't think was mentioned is that at the Andrews, at least, I know the students also have the option to go to the library during that recess portion after they eat. And I think this does meet the definition that Shanine was sharing about, you know, child-directed, child-centered, intrinsically motivated, you know, so there are students that You know, want to go look at books or pick out a book and read in the library I think that's a great option. I don't know if all the schools across the board have that but I know at the Andrews we do. And a lot of it's a very desirable option. Many students want to take advantage of it. And my other comment was from the teacher side. I just wanted to share that I know often if a student is absent and they need to, let's say, make up a quiz or something like that, or even get extra help, often they will want to stay with me during that recess period to do that rather than, you know, staying after school, for example. because some students, you know, cannot stay after school or don't want to stay after school. So I try to offer that as an option as kind of like an equity, you know, to give that all students, you know, a fair shot to do that if they can't stay after school for other reasons, the schedule is tight, so they might not have another opportunity to make up a quiz or something works. So I just wanted to put that out there as well that I agree that recess is really important and maybe not from the discipline aspect, but in terms of allowing students to use their recess time if how they would like.
[Edouard-Vincent]: And member Ruseau, if I may piggyback off of what Emily was just sharing, I have seen it myself. I know one of the times I was recently at the Andrews during one of their recess blocks when we went outside and there were students that chose not to be in the field area or the basketball court area, but they chose to sit at that particular school, again, a different setup. a bench or I don't know if it's a. haunted planter area, but some students just chose to, you know, it might be two students, it might be three students together. They prefer to be in a smaller group as opposed to, you know, the overstimulation of a very, very large group. So I think also just being aware of the different needs of the students. So I really do love that idea of the students that actually choose to go to the library and be in a quiet environment and read And to them, 15, 20 minutes of being able to read or be in a quiet environment in the library is what satisfies them or makes them happy. So I just wanted to say that just listening to the different descriptions of what's been said today, that you really cannot have a one size fits all. limitations that we talked at the top of this meeting about was the physical layout of the different schools, and how much space is actually available. Some schools have a lower playground and upper playground. So, you know, you have more real estate to work with. and greater flexibility at the Missatuck, they won the lottery on that one. They've got plenty of space, lower playground, upper playground, fields. So they have access to a lot of greenery and just a lot of space to spread out and do a lot of different activities. So I just wanted to say it does sometimes look a little, you know, differently but you know when you observe the kids and when I'm out in the field looking at the students. especially during unstructured time, I wanna see kids happy. And I can say to you during that time, you do see kids enjoying themselves, laughing, telling jokes, some are playing sports, they're being competitive, they make up their own rules to their own self-created games, but it is a happy time. And I just also wanna keep that in mind that we are, prioritizing our students, and again, the way they interpret or use that time, it may look differently, but I do feel that it is more student-led than adult-led. The resources and materials may be put there by the adults, but the students use their creativity in terms of how they choose to do the different activities. Thank you.
[Ruseau]: Thank you and we have lots of hands going up I've got a list so member McLaughlin.
[McLaughlin]: Thank you. I was just going to add that it you know this feels like the conversation that she was having at the top of the meeting around child directed play so it sounds like there's a lot of options and opportunities for different. decisions that the child can make, you know, going from the library to whether they choose to, you know, switch out from an after school option to during the day. So I think that could cover it with a very clear definition, but I'm curious to hear what other folks think. Thanks.
[Unidentified]: Thank you. Member Graham. Thank you.
[Graham]: Um, I think, you know, one of the things that strikes me is, uh, why we're even talking about this in the first place. And I think the truth is we're talking about this because parents feel like these concepts that I think are pretty widely agreeable on this call are wildly inconsistently applied across the district. So, um, It's been a few years since recess was normal and things were regular, right? But I can recall pre-COVID on many a day getting calls from friends with kids across the district saying, did your kid go out for recess today? And the answers were all over the board. And I'm here to say the weather is the same everywhere in Medford. maybe once a year, it starts raining at the McGlynn later than it starts raining at the Brooks. But by and large, the weather's the same. And yet, every time this question came up, there was a huge variation in how something as simple as the weather was interpreted across the district. I also had friends at various schools who would have told you that their kids spent most of the winter inside. for one reason or another. And I think, and I remember talking to the prior assistant superintendent of elementary education right before I took office. And she gave me a very long list of reasons why kids could not possibly go outside in certain schools. And my challenge to her at the time and my challenge to all of us is to think about what it would take so that movable barriers don't get in the way of kids going outside for recess. I think you know at the middle school level where the kids have a little bit more agency and some and a lot more freedom to direct their time like all the things that we talked about at the middle school level feel like they are child directed and they are They are helping children develop decision making skills that I think are really important. I think at the elementary level where the kids have considerably less agency, and many fewer choices like I'm not aware that the library at recess is an option at the elementary level. I think we need to really think about how do we make sure that we are consistently applying whatever the policy becomes across the district so that we're not like sort of creating this feeling that depending on what school you're at you're going to have a different experience and your kid may or may not get to move their body during the day in a way that they feel like is necessary. So I think that's one big reason why we are here talking about that. And I think the other big reason we're here talking about that is because there are parents across our community and some very vocal who will tell you about all the times their kid has been, recess has been revoked from their child for disciplinary reasons. Again, I hear about it much, much more at the elementary school level. That's probably because middle schoolers come home and they don't tell you anything about what happened during their day. Or maybe they just have many more choices, but I do hear, you know, from parents about this idea of taking recess away as a form of punishment. And I do, so I do think, you know, if we're to boil down why we're here and why we are feeling like there needs to be a policy at all. Those are the two reasons. And those are like, historical experiences that are sort of consistent and repeated that we need to grapple with as a district to make sure that I think this thing we all agree on here on this call actually can be demonstrated and everybody else in the community can believe us when we say we believe in child-directed play. So I feel like that's sort of the challenge that we have before us. And I think that's where having a written policy about, you know, what the expectations are around recess is, you know, one first step in the right direction. And then, you know, it will be incumbent on many of the people on this call to actually make sure that policy is consistently applied and administered. But I think the first step is for us to have this thoughtful conversation about what from a policy perspective are we trying to accomplish? I want you all to think that we asked you to come here because we made up some work to do that didn't need done. And I don't think that's true at all. So I just wanted to offer that to the conversation.
[Unidentified]: Thank you, Member Graham. Next person I have, Christina, did you have your hand up? I did not, sorry. I came in late, so I'm feeling like totally out of time. That's okay, that's fine, that's fine. Ms. Demas.
[Demos]: Hi, thank you. I too came in late from a meeting, so I apologize for that. And I know I missed the beginning of the conversation, but I just felt it was important to share that when we look at recess on the elementary level, we look at it as a win block for the students, right? So it's what individuals need. So it is center-based, it is child-based, but it's not gonna look the same for every child. So in the elementary, in I'll speak for the Brooks, we do not have the availability to A, staff or B, use the library during our recess times because it goes from 11.55 to 1.30 with the three lunches here in the block scheduling happening. So what we would do for a student that would want to access the library at that time, we have some pretty avid readers. And so we have benches outside We have blankets outside, they can sit and read there instead of the library, so I think we all need to remember to that you know we are looking at each child individually and their interests, we do have some students that do at their age in developmental stage. do require a little bit of prompting and help engaging in using some social pragmatics and things and so that's why we have the staff out there, but they do have those playground baskets and they do have the opportunity to create their own games and their own ways of playing with those. items that are out there. I just wanted to make sure that if we are going to talk about consistency across the district, I know that we have our magic number of what constitutes an indoor recess, but it sounds to me like the conversation, which I may have missed again, I apologize, leads more to that light precipitation of when you go out or when you stay in. I would caution people with having a blanket statement to that because not all students come in prepared, dressed and ready to go outside. And we don't always have the size and the ample clothes to give to those students. And I would hate to exclude anybody because they didn't have something. So I think that if we are going to get to the point of that, we're peeling a pot that onion to that level, I do think we probably need to have conversations of, communication out to the families for expectations of what needs to be brought into school each day with the expectation that you will be going outside and that it should just be a different conversation. But I wanted you to hear as well as, you know, my lens to recess is that wind block, right? Like what the individuals need. And I do think that we do a pretty good job with that here at the, in Medford. That's all I wanted to say.
[Unidentified]: Thank you very much.
[Downs]: I just, I just want to clarify something about the library as well. It's twofold. One is that for some students, being outside with kids running around is in the way that you've all want them to run around. It can be overstimulating for some kids. And for some students, it's a little much for them to handle. So they prefer to go to the library and read, which is great because we want kids reading as much as possible. And the other part of our library process is that we do have a game group where they learn to interact with other peers, playing games in a structured manner, which they tend to like. And if you don't believe me, you can always come down block five for grade six, because they barrel into that office looking for those passes. So it's multi-step. I know if you want to have a policy, but if you over-prescribe, I don't want that library time taken away for kids that really prefer for that time, that quiet time away from their peers, and also just to have their own time to read or to play in a structured manner with their friends or new friends in some cases. So that's all I wanted to say.
[Unidentified]: Thank you, Mr. Downs. I wrote down Ms. Gluthie.
[Galusi]: Well, we'll say principle demos kind of captured a lot of what I was going to say, but I just think there's a there's it feels like two separate conversations going on one about what precipitates indoor recess. well, maybe three conversations, what's done during indoor recess and how those calls are made, and then the child-centered play while outdoors. I did want to say, I saw Principal O'Brien holding up, for years, the elementary principals have aligned around the call for indoor recess if it's not precipitating. And I know it's been communicated to some, school communities, but it's really a real feel less than 25 degrees. You're outside and it's not the hard temperature, it's the real feel. That's what warrants indoor recess if it's not a level of precipitation. Have there been some situations where maybe like snow removal was an issue and so there was like a safety concern at some of the elementary buildings in the wintertime? That's definitely been, you know, an issue. But for the most part, there is that belief of how important fresh air and recess and free play is for children so that real feel of 25 degrees. We're outside, and we're telling children to go outside there is as principal demos talked about sometimes the feasibility of how prepared students are, but a lot of that is handled on a case by case basis. I do want to say. The elementary schools are responsive classroom schools and the tenant of responsive classroom is about logical consequences. So I do, which means that recess should not be used as a punishment. However, if we do have unsafe behaviors in schools, our job is to educate children around pro-social behaviors and the safety of being around their peers. And so sometimes if they're exhibiting that, especially during play, the logical consequence is that they're removed from that. They're still outside. There may be a reflective moment. There may be a walking moment. The element of child directed may be skewed because that's the logical consequence for the action. I don't know of it being used for anything other than that. If there are those like one off situations I would, I would really welcome a conversation about that. but I just wanted to kind of capture the piece of the responsive classroom being around what's logical because that's how children, especially at the elementary level, make connections around their behavior is when the consequences are logical to what the behavior was. Thanks. That's it.
[Unidentified]: That's all I have for right now. Thank you. Member McLaughlin.
[McLaughlin]: Thank you. Yeah, I don't know I would disagree with some of that, respectfully, I think that in terms of recess I think it's super important for most kids and I do believe in logical consequences when logical consequences can be understood and when there's a direct correlation. There's lots of times that you know kids with disabilities and others might not be able to understand the direct correlation between recess and having it taken away and behavior. And so that's much more complicated in terms of behavior plans and all of the things that we know go into place. But, and a lot of times our kids who we may see more behavior with have a higher need for exercise, like folks who might be identified as having ADHD or things like that. So, and we also potentially see disproportionality in, punishment, if you will, for students with disabilities and minorities, particularly. Not necessarily speaking specifically to our district and our data, but we know that that's an issue in education as a whole. And hopefully we will be looking at some of our data overall. But I think that those are factors that need to be considered as well. And back to what Shannon was saying a few minutes ago as well in terms of you know, ensuring that families have and understand home notices for requirements for their children to go outside or what have you, I think maybe we could work with the community to ensure that there are some extra, especially at the elementary, well, at all the school levels, that there are extra codes, like what we saw at Missituk with the PTO at Missituk, because there may be families that actually don't have that, or, you know, families where they're not able to provide that or don't understand what's being asked of that. whole host of situations that I just want to make sure we're thinking outside the margins for all of our children. Thanks.
[Unidentified]: Thank you, Member McLaughlin. Ms. Peliquin.
[Chenine Peloquin]: The removal, I mean, to echo what Melanie said, the removal of recess is only logical as a consequence of the behavior is at recess and behavior has a reason underlying it. And behaviorism of the antecedent and the consequence and the rewards and the punishment is only one way to look at behavior. I would highly recommend all of the administration and school committee members take a look at the lives and the balance, which is a transformative way of looking at behavior in schools that addresses the underlying lagging skills that children have, particularly children who get in trouble a lot, and gives a framework with completely free resources on how to address those behaviors at livesinthebalance.org. But back to Jenny's policy piece, I feel like since I said the thing about child-directed play, people have been really defensive about like, but we do believe this. And yes, most people do, and the people who are in this space do, which is why we're in this space. But as Jenny said, the difference in how it's actually being implemented. And maybe the principals are talking about it and deciding if they're going out for recess, but that's not what's happening in the classrooms for the children. So what do we wanna see going forward? And also I just wanna, one of the things that has come up at the playground meetings for the McGlynn is a very big concern from all of the members of the committee that walking recess is public shaming. Because there is no other reason you would just be walking laps as an eight year old at recess. unless you have some diagnosis that makes it hard for you to participate in play, and then you have enough reasons to be standing out. And we don't need walking recess to be pointed out to everyone. And teachers do need to be able to address challenging behaviors, but there are other ways besides reward and punishment.
[Ruseau]: Thank you. Ms. Sherwood-Hudson.
[Sherman-Hudson]: I apologize for not being able to raise my hand, but physically, it seems like all my things are not working. So I will actually address, because at the Missitech, part of our PBIS program and the responsive classroom, which we're blending together, is the fact that when a child does need some type of a consequence for whatever their action is, is that we have a time to reflect sheet. So that time to reflect time, Years ago, it used to be we assigned a staff member to sit down, talk them through what happened. We are able to at least take the data from that to find out what times of day does this happen, how frequently, so we're able to tier that student to give them what they need. Right now at the mist attack if a child is having a difficult time, and there is a consequence, they do have the shadow the teacher, but before they shadow the teacher they're talking to the teacher the teachers also talking with them about whatever happened. for them to have created this kind of type of a consequence. Because we do respect the fact that they need to get outside, get some fresh air. I understand your comment about public shaming. I'm not sure if, I don't know, if that what part of the day we would be able to truly give them that kind of attention at the same time. If they have done something and their students have seen that, then I find out from parents, well, this child was never consequence because such and such a thing happened. So I think the elementary level teachers would be love to know how the students can do this time to reflect so they understand it, and going out at recess time, getting their fresh air, but at the same time, they feel, okay, I did my apologies, I've written what the issues have been, and then move on from there. But I mean, it's an interesting point that you put that level of, that you feel that it's shaming, and that's something that we maybe can come back to the PBIS and the responsive classroom and find a way to have that work. so that they don't feel that way.
[Unidentified]: Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.
[Andrew O'Brien]: Yes, thank you. The only point, well two points. One is a priority of recess for all adults and kids is number one, to keep it safe, to keep it safe. We want self directed play, and we want it done safely. If we identify unsafe behavior, to piggyback off of what Ms. Galussi says, we do administer that logical consequence, which is time bound. So a hypothetical. And so my other point too is just, I wanna bring everybody to an awareness of just cautioning against micromanaging recess. I'm just kind of getting that feeling that we're trying to almost plan it out. This is how, you know, we should do recess minute by minute. So there have been instances where unsafe behavior has occurred during recess. And my teachers have asked, can I administer a logical consequence, such as walking with the student to talk through the incident, and I have approved it. And I have kept a time bound, you know, take them on either a couple of laps or take them for three to five minutes. Once you feel the student is safe, then have them re-engage in recess. But I just would advocate that we do consider that the school has the responsibility to exercise all Logical is responsible for taking action steps to ensure the safety of all children during recess. So those- Thank you.
[Ruseau]: Thank you. Before I go on to the next question, I will say, well, we certainly have not micromanaged because we haven't ever said a single word in policy as a school committee about recess in this district ever. It's not written down one word. So I'm not interested in going from one extreme to the other. as one member, I'm not interested in like slingshotting the entire, all of you all who have to manage these schools. It's not at all the goal. So I don't want you to be fearful that we're going to be providing you with a schedule of what kids should be doing every minute of their recess. First of all, we don't technically have such authority, I don't think, but I don't think that's what we want. So, member McLaughlin.
[McLaughlin]: Thank you. I want to just also comment on micromanaging I think that you know you guys are professionals we know that. And we know that you're got a lot of things that you're handling and a lot of balls in the air that you have to handle so and I know it takes more than one person, right? So it's not one principal, it's not one superintendent, it's not one school committee member, it's all of us together collectively as a community working on improving our schools and our BCBAs and our school adjustment Councilors and all of those things that we clearly need. And so I guess to Mr. O'Brien's point, I would say, is there data collected on that? Because I think it would be really interesting. And I know you as educators know that data tells a story. And so really looking at what your data is telling you. So if you are doing, if teachers are doing that, what is the data telling you? Who are the people that that is happening to? Who are the teachers that are doing that? Is there disproportionality there? Is there not? I think that really sort of being able to have some of the data on that too is important. And so that can help us really understand better. Because I think part of the, and I may be mistaken, but I think part of the reason that this is being brought to the policy floor. And part of it is because we didn't have one, but also because as school committee members and as community members, we hear, we do hear stories from families specifically around some of these consequences around recess. And we want to be able to bring families and schools together and families and administrators together to make sure that we're all coming up with effective solutions. I would just encourage if that was going to be the case, that data be collected and that somehow that data be disaggregated and shared so that we can understand what that is and what it looks like. Thanks.
[Unidentified]: Thank you. Member Graham.
[Graham]: Thank you. I also wanted to be unequivocally clear that We are not looking to micromanage anything, at least I am not. I would say that, if anything, my criticism is of the Medford School Committee, who it's 2022, and we don't have a policy on recess and we are an anomaly. So many, many, many, many, many, many districts have come before us and done this work and we never have and that's not on any of you that's on the school committee. But I think what we are trying to do is say we're all part we're all part of this ecosystem and we talked a lot about. accountability and consistency, and there is no way to have accountability and consistency unless there is a policy agreement that we are administering against. So I think this doesn't have to be onerous, and it doesn't have to be bad, and it certainly doesn't have to be micromanaging, but I do think it's important, if not, to make sure that you all have a policy to stand on and say this is the policy in the direction of the district, but also so that the community knows what that policy is and the community can alert you when something is happening that is outside of the bounds of that policy. Because I think we don't have a good track record in Medford of parents telling the administration in a forthright and direct manner when things are not going as they are expecting. And I think that's for a lot of reasons. And I think one of those reasons is everybody has different expectations because we as a district have never set the playing field of what those expectations are. So I think that's really important. And when you do that, and when you can educate everybody on what that consistency looks like, you have a better chance of people believing you when you say, this is what we think, or this is how we behave. And because right now, we are just buried under example, after example, after example, and I'm not specifically talking about recess, I'm talking about district wide, of the ways we are inconsistent, or the ways that we are perceived to not be holding people accountable. And I don't think anybody wants to operate this way at all because I think it's a really brutally painful way for for any organization to operate. So I guess I would say that we want to do this together. We are trying to do this so that we can set that tone of consistency, that you all have the same sort of definition of what that consistency is at the high level, and you can determine how to operationalize that in your buildings, which are quite different. You know, Andy, I am hopeful that the drainage issues that we've addressed will not make this so big of an issue for you this winter, but I know in the past it has been a sizable issue. And if we could buy Kirk another piece of land so that he had more space for recess, we should think about doing that too. Like there's a lot of operational issues that you all have to sort of figure out. but if you're all operating to the same consistent standard and you know what that is and the public knows what that is, I think we have a better chance of everybody being on the same page and you all being alerted when something isn't going right so that it can be figured out before somebody is, you know, 50 emails deep to the school committee and giving us a presentation about You know, some, some issue or another, and I do think that sort of setting that tone and that tenor for for all of the work that we do from a policy perspective is important. should encourage you all to have conversations among yourselves about what you need from us to be able to be consistent. And if that is, I don't know what that is, like a functional playground, maybe on Andy's list right now, because he doesn't have one, right? But there may be practical things that are different building to building in the endeavor for us to be consistent and to be looking at equity across the district where we need to give something different to the Missittuck than we need to give to the McGlynn because of the circumstances, but that that allows us all to sort of get to the same level playing field. So I am excited that we're doing this. I will say from a school committee perspective, it's very overdue as is the review of the vast majority of our policies or lack of policies since I've been on the committee and trying to work through these in some logical manner, I think is really important. So I am excited for the idea that we can get this done. If for no other reason than we can start communicating what these rules are so that parents can start to understand that consistency is a value that we hold and we're trying to take action against it.
[Unidentified]: Thank you. Ms. Coluse.
[Galusi]: Thank you. And thank you, Member Graham. A lot of I was gonna kind of talk a little bit, one of the things I wanted to talk about was the consistency piece as well as the alignment is important in some of the autonomy because the spaces are so different is also important. And member McLaughlin spoke a little bit about the data and I'm all for data and I'm all for making sure that our expectations of what this time should be is aligned. But I also do want to like elevate again what Principal Demos said about that time being like individual. And so the individual needs of students are accounted for. And so it is hard to make a blanket statement sometimes about 100% recess should not be used when children exhibit unsafe behaviors. Now the data piece is important to track that some of that is not unearthing a bigger problem. However, there has to be a level of flexibility in whatever it is that's going to be created within this group of people. And the other piece I just wanted to kind of punctuate a little bit is that I do find it unfortunate in a way that you're getting inundated with a lot of, you know, concerns or comments or phone calls or emails, because I would say it's also hard to fix something or work on something if it's not brought back to the principle. Now if it is brought back to the principle and that it's still not being addressed. That's another issue. And then I feel like, you know, that is something that constituents and family members can go to you, can go to the superintendent. But really if parents are concerned about anything that's happening at recess, really the first person should be the teacher. And then if they're not satisfied with that, it should be the building principal. And the principal should be allowed and be given the opportunity to handle those concerns on an individual basis. And I just, I really wanted to make sure that, you know, that piece was kind of discussed as well. Thank you.
[Ruseau]: Thank you. Before I go to Member McLaughlin, I will, you know, the, I don't remember if it's in the first 15 minutes of every school committee training, the one that all of us have to take away first, get elected, but that is, beaten over our heads that when we will be the people that naturally families will reach out to, because we live in the community and they may know us, and that our response should be to say, go to the teacher, then go to the principal, then the assistant superintendent, then the superintendent. And then when that's all not working, well, then come on back and visit us. It's really hard for us as members to do that because what we are hearing is a tiny slice of something super important for the family. with no context and with no ability to really get the context. And all of us on the school committee are here because we wanted to do this work and we wanted to help people and make schools better. And so it's like, go back and see these 12 people before you, you know, and I'll see you in six months. Like that's just a very unsatisfying answer as a school committee member, but it is something we I believe all of us on the school committee do try to do because, well, first of all, because we are trained that way, but also because we just often don't know enough to do much about it or to do the right thing.
[Unidentified]: Anyways, Member McLaughlin.
[McLaughlin]: Thank you. Um, yeah, so I guess to that point in terms of the data, um, you know, some families may not know that their Children are not going to recess. So, you know, we do have some Children in the district who do not communicate with words who, you know, um, you know, are not able to tell their family if they went out to recess that day or not. So the question I have as well in terms of the data is our families being notified. You know, if their child is not allowed to go to recess and how. And so I guess that's a piece of it too.
[Unidentified]: Thanks.
[Demos]: Hi, Paul. I just wanted to say, as a former school committee member, that chart of the course rings true when you're saying that first day, right? So I remember the person that was running that class said to us as school committee members sitting in front of them, chart of the course is part of chain of communication. Just think of a C and a C and a C and a C. And he's like, it's going to be your best friend as a school committee going forward. And I've never forgotten that in all the years that I was the vice chair of the committee. I do say that I will agree with you that it is a difficult conversation when you're an elected official and you have members of the community that are looking forward for you to make a change and to help them advocate. One thing that I would do is I would ask those probing questions of, have you spoken with the classroom teacher? Have you talked to the principal? And did you get anywhere from there? And then send them back to that. I would then send an email to the principal and say, just want to let you know that, you know, So and so is in requesting some information in regards to recess, could you please reach out to them and then let me know when that's been handled, then I would reach out to the family and just say, had you had a successful conversation and kind of follow it up that way. But I definitely think that when you said that chattering the course come comment it brought me back to that and I understand that that is a really hard place to be at. But as a sitting principal now and with my school committee head off. I totally appreciate that communication coming back and I don't mind if you just send an email or call that says, hey, by the way. I'm hearing from so-and-so about recess because I'm knocking on wood right now, but it isn't a topic that I hear from many families. So if you're getting emails and calls on your level that I can't help them at the building level, then I feel sort of bad about that because if I know I can help. So I do just appreciate you listening to that comment. Thank you.
[Unidentified]: Thank you. Member McLaughlin, you have your hand up again. Where is that? No, it's from afar, thanks. Okay, thank you. Ms.
[Chenine Peloquin]: Peliquin. I guess I don't see where this policy conversation is taking away any individual school choices. It seems that the conversation is about weather, punishment, and I would add screens during indoor recess. The focus of this meeting is not on individual activities at recess, but on inequitable access to the time itself.
[Ruseau]: Thank you. I did have a question about the windblock analogy for recess. And I guess I'll just say it. Who gets to decide what the kid needs? Because it feels like if it's not the kid, then it's the opposite of child-directed. And I mean, if a child is during recess not able to play with other kids in a way that is working, however that is defined. And, you know, the natural responses of the other kids is not doing the educating that frankly probably happens a lot of the time. You know, I can see how the adults coming in to try and like help things get better if that's necessary, makes sense. But wind blocks, I guess it feels a bit like, Who gets to decide that? I mean, are kids really going like, I'm not gonna do recess today. I'm gonna go and do something that's not considered recess because an adult thought you needed more support in some other way. I don't really follow how it, my understanding of wind block is very much that the adults are saying, you know, my kid isn't getting this math concept and it's the wind block. So we're gonna go over the math concept during wind block.
[Demos]: Right, so my comment, though, in regards to the wind block was more the fact that the students are given opportunities to choose what they're interested in in recess time that they have the fields, they have the playground, they have the bucket of supplies, they have the chalk, they can bring their library books. there are opportunities for them to make the choices. My point is, is that there are some students that struggle with making that decision and we have our professionals or staff that say to them, here's some opportunities that we have. What do you feel like playing today? Do you want to go and talk to so and so? They sort of guide it. But then they there are options out there for them readily available was my my analysis towards the wind block. It's not highly structured, but there I wanted to make the point that it doesn't look the same for every student at recess, because some kids are looking to get to that field as soon as they can, because they can't wait to start the soccer game when others can't. That is so overwhelming to them that they want the chalk at the loop. And that's OK, too. We don't want people to feel like they have to be, because your class is going out, this is what you have to play. That was more the analysis.
[Ruseau]: Thank you.
[Unidentified]: That makes much more sense.
[Chenine Peloquin]: I guess it's about choice, not type of play. And this is something that grownups get mixed up all the time. And I think that the way we design play environments, this is coming up a lot with the McGlynn, is that playgrounds are designed for two types of play. As a play worker, we identify like 16 types of play. So play can be reading in the library because it's about choice and agency and how you're spending that time. So there are just many different types of play and grownups tend to only be like, they need to be running around. But some kids need just that time to sit under the structure and hang out with a friend and chat, and then that's okay too. Kids can be quiet, it can still be play. I think, Paul, your comment about kids needing support at recess is really important to think about, is what does a child need to be able to access recess? And that could be its own whole separate discussion other than this policy access piece.
[Unidentified]: Thank you.
[Ruseau]: We are at 513. Oh, Dr. Edward-Vinson.
[Edouard-Vincent]: I was watching the clock as well but I wanted to say, just listening to today's conversation it was very rich there were a lot of different perspectives and things that were put forward for us to really be able to seriously consider and prepare for the next rules policy meeting to be discussing crafting a district wide policy. But I just wanted to say just listening to all of the different perspectives and what was said that it is not a one size fits all. you know, solution that whatever policy does end up being the final created policy, we do have to keep in mind that it will look different for different students. And the examples, again, of the library and students that I see who choose to not play and run at all, but just sit with one or two other friends and just, you know, enjoy the fresh air, but take advantage of that time together. So I think the next phase would be, and I don't know, Member Ruseau, if you'll be sending me one of the policies that you were looking at, or what it is that you're thinking about for a next step to be, where I'll be able to work with the administrative team as well, because there definitely are a lot of dimensions and layers, and we wanna be um, truly inclusive, um, in whatever policy ends up, um, being created, that it, it represents, um, all of our learners here within the district. Thank you.
[Ruseau]: Thank you. Um, thank you. And, um, you know, we'll at the next meeting, we will talk about language, but I will tell you that when I looked at the recess policies and other districts, um, everybody will be happy to know that they were very, very brief. Even when they were very concise, you know, about what can or can't happen, they were very brief. And I think that that speaks to the fact that the policy is not implementation. So, you know, the concern certainly that, you know, the Roberts does not have the space that other schools have, or that the McGlynn is in a tough spot altogether. Those are implementation concerns, as long as the policy does not get so fine that it makes it impossible to implement in those two particular settings. I will certainly make sure, hopefully we will not go anywhere near you know, really, really detailed stuff. But, you know, I just have a short list of what's to include or discuss in the next meeting. Consistency of when is recess happening or not happening, I heard, as something to consider. And there are, there was a federally funded grant that created a fabulous chart that Saves. It's sort of like the real feel thing, but it's it's a little more complicated. And, you know, it tells you whether or not you're having recess or not. There's the definition of recess which There's the I think it'd be important to include a definition of what is not recess. plopping the kids down in the classroom or any other setting and putting a movie on isn't recess, whether or not it's that time of day. And so a definition of what is not recess, I said consistency already. And then we have to find a way to discuss when recess is, well, and honestly, all the other policies are very clear that recess will not be taken away for discipline. And so we will, I think we'll have to dig into that more, more at the next meeting as to what that looks like, because whether we need to support professional development for teachers so that there's classroom management. One of the things that in articles I've read very clear is If we can't take away recess, then we can't punish the kids or have any consequences at all. And I know that many of you all here are like, well, that doesn't make sense. There's lots of other ways to have consequences. But I think it's not fair to not recognize that there might be teachers that don't have necessarily all the skills to know that there are other options and how to do that. So I don't think teachers like look forward to taking away recess. That's, that's not a thing. But if they honestly believe that's their only tool, then we need to make sure they understand and have the support to have other tools. So, and then, you know, we do want to talk about data, because, you know, if it while adding lots of more data entry and you know, forms to fill out, that all sounds terrible, but if it's once every six weeks a teacher is taking away recess, it's not too much to ask that a form be filled out. If it's three kids or six kids a day, well, that's a different problem. And I'd still support an excessively long form to fill out, like what's going on in that classroom. So, I think we should talk about data, what is not recess, what is recess, consistency, about when it happens. Am I missing anything for the next meeting?
[Unidentified]: Member Ruseau. Yes, Member McLaughlin.
[McLaughlin]: Sorry, driving. I wanted to thank everyone for being here and thank you for recapping what we wanted to look at I'm wondering when you're saying the next meeting which meeting you mean, because there's lots of meetings. So that's one thing and then the other is. I love the idea of professional development and I know you know some people may grown at you know additional professional development, what have you, but having you know just come back from the mass association of school committees conference association of school superintendent conference. There were so many great sessions there and there were some sessions specific to this. and specific to just, you know, the social emotional needs of kids in our schools. And we know that we are in a mental health crisis around, you know, the pandemic and the data and what we're seeing in terms of data for increase in behavioral health supports and needs and counseling and, you know, hospitalization and suicides. And I mean, all of it, it's just off the hook as I'm sure you guys are dealing with every single day. I support very much the professional development piece, and I thank you for bringing that up, because I think it's an important piece.
[Ruseau]: Thank you. Yes, so as for which next meeting, so I will, there's always so many meetings, but I will schedule another rules and policy subcommittee meeting. I don't have the date, so I have to reach out to see who is available and when, but where we will look at some of the other policies in surrounding districts, which is not an overwhelming effort since they're short, as I mentioned. And then we will draft some language to insert into our wellness policy, as well as update a few other things that are outdated from the template system. Anybody have any.
[McLaughlin]: Sorry, just for the rest of the room. And that's, that's all drafted in subcommittee. But then that has to go before our entire committee. And then they, you know, based on recommendations or not, vote on it. So this is not a final, you know, process. It's just one step in the next process.
[Ruseau]: Correct. Yes. Thank you for that. I always forget. Not everybody knows the whole process. And so does anybody have any final words they want to add? I don't see any hands. All right, well, I'm thrilled to say that we are nine minutes early. Oh, I need to take a... Thank you. Motion to adjourn.
[Graham]: Yeah, second.
[Ruseau]: All right, member Graham.
[Graham]: Yes.
[Ruseau]: Member McLaughlin.
[Graham]: Yes.
[Ruseau]: Member Ruseau, yes. Thank you everyone for coming. Thanks everyone. Great conversation and this meeting is adjourned.
[Unidentified]: Thanks everyone.
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